A fellow blogger with the handle “gto7” posted an interesting piece titled:

Rape of the Truth the Second Pillar of Secular Humanism

I found it an interesting and well written piece so I responded:


ClapSo Says:
July 18th, 2007 at 8:52 pm

As well written a piece as I’ve ever read. I don’t however agree with a word of it. You try to define truth as a constant when in fact a truth only has validity in a given social context.

There are two kinds of truth:

1)Personal truth (what any ONE of us believes to be true)

2)Consensual truth (what TWO or MORE of us agree to be true)

Even if there is an absolute truth, the truth agreed upon by any number of social groups (consensual truth) may or may not agree with this absolute truth even if it exists.

Within any given group it is the leadership that decides what shall be the truth, and leaders have always used the power of leadership to FORCE CONSENSUS. The leaders will always insist that the leaders truth IS the absolute truth.

This is easily seen in any social group, whether you agree or not ;)

The scientifically impossible I do right away
The spiritually miraculous takes a bit longer



Above is an infamous leader speaking plainly about how leaders frame what they say to force consensus. This is a very good historic lesson on believing what the leaders say. It ain’t the smartest move.

Here’s a bit of truth about what has gone on via American foreign policy. It ain’t pretty:

Here’s a bunch of lies that are confronted with truth:

As you can see above, leaders become so convinced that they are the final arbiters of what is true, even when they are confronted with their own lies they insist they didn’t actually say whatever they lied about. They simply change what they claim to be the truth.


Above is the kind of person who will believe whatever their leaders tell them to believe as the “gospel truth.” These are people who believe that their leaders are always smarter and more well informed then anyone else.

Myself, I am forever questioning everything I hear or see. It makes no sense to just suck up any bullshit a person in power spews. You have to question them or expose yourself to the danger that you will regret what you allow your leadership to do in your name. Anyone that went to “support the troops rallies” while I was going to antiwar rallies now has to face the truth about the war in Iraq. I pity them, these poor fools. They find out now that all they believed was and is a lie. Some few of them still insist that all the lies told them by the bush crime family are still true, but the number of people that stupid drops on a daily basis. There are no new converts in support of the war, only a few bedraggled leftovers from the days when many of my fellow citizens were completely fooled…

The telepathic crickets predict that “gto7” will call ClapSo a “secular humanist” 😉

The scientifically impossible I do right away

The spiritually miraculous takes a bit longer


~ by ClapSo on July 19, 2007.

11 Responses to “Truth?”

  1. I realy like the quote and landscape picture from WW2… It is soo scarry! It gives me a feeling of circular forshadowing. It is quite confusing to explain.

  2. Excellent post Clapso.

  3. Good post. Still there are people who believe Bush that US is fighting the war on terror in Iraq so they don’t have to fight here in America. Still there are people who believe that WMD were found in Iraq. The voters will again elect the biggest lier in 2008.

  4. It is interesting to note, the absolute truth (as in rulemaking, politics )as prescribed by gto7 in his post, has absolutely no bearing on his using an example of prime # 41 as an absolute truth.
    The contents of his post as it relects to holding absolute truth is like me saying it is incontrovertible, absolutely unequivacably true that I can drive in Massachusetts 15 miles over the speed limit because I’ve never been stopped for speeding. Perhaps it is true…….. from my perspective. Maybe it is relatively true, But is it absolutely true?
    Truth is in the mind of the beholder or a group.
    Good post Clapso.

  5. Hi Josh, yes it all seems like history repeating itself don’t it?

    Thanks for coming by fairlane, it’s a pleasure to see you comment here.

    Hi QB, although I agree there are still many people that are fooled by the lairs. I am as yet not sure if the foled will go to the polls and vote. I’m also not yet sure how many will still be fooled come the 2008 election. I still have hope we can turn our country around.

    Thanks J Alan, insightful comment as per you usual. I find gto7 to be an interesting contradiction. I find all the posts on gto7’s blog to be well written and well thought out, and yet somehow they come to conclusions that I can’t in any way agree on. One thing for certain, gto7 is an original being. I have never read anything like what is written on that blog.

    The scientifically impossible I do right away
    The spiritually miraculous takes a bit longer

  6. Wouldn’t worry, clapso.
    I would rather be called a secular humanist
    than any other forms of humanism, especially religious humanist.

    I personally believe truth as the fact or the reality,
    which is so absolute that it is beyond any need for interpretation.

    Anything which is an interpretation of the facts or reality is just that an only an interpretation, the more forceful the voice of interpretor and with time, gradually is accepted as truth. What you refer to personal or consensual truth fall into this group.

    That is the start of most disputes.
    When voices are raised to prove whose ‘interpretation’ of truth is the ‘truth’. Even if none of them are, we may choose one against the others, a possible distortion of truth becomes the truth, unreal becomes the reality. That is frightening.

    There are many humans, probably the majority, who do not have the will, desire or the strength to find the facts for themselves, to co-relate information in an attempt to define that absolute truth. Sadly they have to rely totally on others to do it for them.

    If I have repeated (in my usual bumbling way)
    what you have already said yourself, I apologise.

    I have no problems with you being a secular humanist, but do you?

  7. little indian, I have no problem with it. Secular Humanism is the name given to any thought that doesn’t fit into the mind set of certain right wing religious types. I don’t agree with them, thus I’m a secular humanist…

    The scientifically impossible I do right away
    The spiritually miraculous takes a bit longer

  8. “Secular humanist”, “moral relativist”, “solipsist”, “evolutionist”, “atheist” the list goes on and on, and it’s because, in my opinion, that’s how they are taught to respond.

    Most people have no idea what those words mean, but the general view is that they are somehow “negative.” It is a way to marginalize and dismiss people.

    I have a friend similar to this gto7. Very bright, accomplished writer and thinker who comes to the most ridiculous of conclusions.

  9. Yes fairlane, they do seem to use these labels in a dismissive way. How else to lead their followers to the “correct” way if not by showing them the “incorrect” way. These phrases are now used to struggle for power. They are not really anything but holy cows anymore. My next post tackles that aspect of all this.

    That there are ” very bright,accomplished writer(s) and thinker(s)” who come to conclusions other then full agreement, this proves relativism is simply the truth, whether it is absolutely the truth or not 😉

    The scientifically impossible I do right away
    The spiritually miraculous takes a bit longer

  10. I’ll pick up on those excellent You tube vids Clapso. The timeline of US/CIA atrocities is very scary indeed. And the video showing all the lies told regarding the Iraq invasion is a stark and much-needed reminder of their criminal acts because Bush/Blair/Cheney etc. are furtively trying to walk away from it all now. And we really shouldn’t be letting that happen.

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